Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

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Miss Liberty
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Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by Miss Liberty » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:34 pm

(I really did not know where to post this. I figured the tutorials made sense since its almost like a business tute/advice question)


Forgive me if this topic is a little preemptive, since I do not have a response back yet, but I wanted to ask this and get some opinions before I proceed...

I've been selling now for a few years, and as far as my dreads are concerned I've never really had anything other than glowing feedback and compliments back from my clients who receive their orders. At the least I've gotten "Got them! Thank you!" but most of the time they state how pleased they are. Nearly all of my current client base are return customers, so I think I can toot my own horn enough to say I do nice, reliable work.

So, it took me by suprize when one of my latest new customers wrote to tell me she didn't receive what she ordered and would like a refund. She has given no other details other than these stated.

She sent me a picture of dreads I had done for VideoKidd and asked me to duplicate them. I pretty much did so right down to the letter. The only difference is while VK's order was for loose dreads for braiding, this customer wanted them mounted on falls. So I did so.

Now, I can see how she might get them and not be able to achieve the very same look and style that VK had because of the way they are mounted, but she ordered them this way and I complied. I've written her a sincere letter asking her specifically what it is about them she feels was wrong, and I am waiting for a reply back. I'm more than willing to work with her on making her happy, but the set was $120.00 and took me a VERY long time to do since some of the dreads were very long. I feel that I complied completely on my end, and if she didn't receive what she had in mind it is her fault for being unable to communicate that to me. However, I do not wish to stain my reputation, or make anyone feel like they'e been screwed.

So, my question is, under what circumstances do you feel a refund is reasonable? One of my coworkers said I should NEVER give a refund for my custom work unless it is defective, which these clearly are not. I tend to agree since these were such a specific order I don't know if they would even resell well, and I am out all the time and effort I put into the set. However, I want the people I work with to walk away happy, its one of the main reasons I got into dreadmaking, to make people happy.

I realize that as a seller I should have formulated a refund policy by now. Its just that I have been doing this more of an extra hobby, and everyone has been so happy so far I haven't really thought about someone wanting money back. Poor planning on my part I suppose, but here I am...

What do you think so far? I realize I might need more info from her to get a clearer picture if a refund is warranted, but I'd like to at least get an idea of what I might be looking at here.

Any opinions are helpful! Thanks!

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kezerb
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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by kezerb » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:08 pm

I think no. If they are to her specifiations then it is not your fault.
Also if she has worn them, which it sounds like she has in your post, definitly do not give her a refund. Health and hygiene

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[Tank]
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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by [Tank] » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:16 pm

kezerb wrote:I think no. If they are to her specifiations then it is not your fault.
Also if she has worn them, which it sounds like she has in your post, definitly do not give her a refund. Health and hygiene
Agreed, you cant expect to get the exact same effect from an install as with falls, you made the dreads the same, the dreads are sound themselves, you got the colours, length, blaaa, there's nothing unsanitary about them - what she ordered. There's no fundamental basis for wanting a refund except they werent what she expected, which, unfortunately, happens from time to time.
To begin with, a dog is not mad. you see a dog growls when it's angry, and wags its tail when it's pleased. Now I growl when I'm pleased, and wag my tail when I'm angry. Therefore I am mad.

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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by IKickShins » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:29 am

Miss Liberty wrote:One of my coworkers said I should NEVER give a refund for my custom work unless it is defective, which these clearly are not. I tend to agree since these were such a specific order I don't know if they would even resell well, and I am out all the time and effort I put into the set.
That's my policy; I only give refunds if I made a mistake in some way.

I'd suggest gently explaining that you can't legally accept a return and offering some suggestions on how to make them look as much like Videokidd's hair as possible. Obviously it'll never be identical because they're falls and not extensions, but trying to help her might make her a little happier about the transaction.
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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by cybernetikdreams » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:08 am

I have to agree with the other ladies that a refund due to the fact that the mounted dreads are not styling like the loose ones that VideoKidd ordered. It sounds like that you did exactly what she wanted and it is not your fault that the falls don't match the installation look. I am not sure how your falls are mounted ( if they are Ses or Des) but the customer can always remove them from the mounting and attempt an install. And perhaps even send her to IKS tutorial on how to make the falls look more natural like an install. Be firm yet polite and offer suggestions on how to remedy the situation however I would not take them back either on the grounds she listed. Honestly there are just sometimes you can't please everyone no matter how hard you try and she may just be one of those customers. ;)
Honestly I should be working...

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Miss Liberty
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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by Miss Liberty » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:32 pm

Thank you for the perspective, guys! I appreciate it!

She has still yet to write me back, but it looks as if I have me answer :) I just hope I can help her feel better about them! I am confident with my work, but its always a bit of a blow to have someone unhappy!

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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by Acorn » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:06 am

ikickshins wrote:
Miss Liberty wrote:One of my coworkers said I should NEVER give a refund for my custom work unless it is defective, which these clearly are not. I tend to agree since these were such a specific order I don't know if they would even resell well, and I am out all the time and effort I put into the set.
That's my policy; I only give refunds if I made a mistake in some way.

I'd suggest gently explaining that you can't legally accept a return and offering some suggestions on how to make them look as much like Videokidd's hair as possible. Obviously it'll never be identical because they're falls and not extensions, but trying to help her might make her a little happier about the transaction.
yup some gently guidelines should do the trick, she has no right to ask for a refund for a custom order that is what she asked only she had the disappointment of realizing two people dont always look the same in the same dreads
I bent my wookie!!

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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by rivetlicker_ » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:00 am

You should tell her that if she doesn't like them she has the right to sell them onto someone else as long as she mentions that they have been worn and for a lesser price.
In no way do you deserve to be treated like that as a seller. They say the customer is always right, but some are just plain idiots.

Tsk tsk.

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runningwithlola
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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by runningwithlola » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:55 am

I recently ordered some dreads and they were gorgeous, but not what I expected. I did NOT expect a refund. We just had different interpretations of what I was asking for. You had a picture to go on and were duplicating something, so I don't see you at fault at all!

I just ate the $$ and resold the dreads. I don't think it's fair to expect a refund for that. I'm sure a 'no refunds except for errors/defects" clause would be good though. Hope this works out with a minimum of trouble.

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Miss Liberty
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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by Miss Liberty » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:11 pm

Thanks, everyone! As always you are all so helpful!

She never did get back to me, so I'm assuming that she has either learned to live with them, or realizes I filled my part of the bargain.

I'll let you know if anything changes!

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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by Icky-nay » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:34 am

I do a home based tailoring 'business' which gives me a little extra cash. Mainly I just do taking in of grad dresses, hemming pants and altering t-shirts, but occasionally I do corset orders, custom skirts, pants, shorts and tops.
My policy is:
You ordered it. You probably came with me to the store to pick out fabric. I took your measurements IN person at the time it was ordered. I also show you, from the patterns I have, what it will look like as a finished peice. I do a pretty bang-up job with straight hems. If you don't like how it looks on you, or how it fits...it's your problem. But if there is a genuine problem with the fabric (which I will usually catch because custom sewing is really very visual, you're looking at the fabric at least three times before you even sew it together), or the quality of the thread - It's up to you to get it back to me where I will gladly refund you the cost of the faulty materials. I don't do labor refunds.

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Miss Liberty
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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by Miss Liberty » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:55 pm

Well, I finally heard back from her. Now, I had pretty much made up my mind from this thread, and advice from friends and family, but it kind of ticked me off that she waited so long to get back to me and still expected a refund.

here is the email exchange. Do you think I did alright?

____________________________________
To: Libertinas Revamp (136728181)
Date: Feb 20, 2009 3:04 PM
Subject: RE: RE: Re: RE: Dreads?



sorry it took so long

there the wrong color they dont fit nor stay in my hair, and its just not what i thought i was getting

i need to return them for my money please

___________________________________

My response:


Again, I am very sorry that you are unhappy with them! I've never had an unhappy client before!

As far as the colors being wrong, I don't see how that could be possible. You sent me a full color photo of dreads that I made myself, so I'm familiar with each and every dread. Granted sometimes the camera makes colors look a tad bit off, but nothing in that photo is that different from how they look in person.

These were custom made dreads, meaning that everything was exactly down to your specifications. I would have a hard time reselling these dreads to someone else, because they are so unique. Plus, it sounds like you've had a hard time putting them in. I cannot count on the fact that they will be in the same condition when you return them as when I sent them out.

If you are having trouble putting them in your hair, I can send you to a number of links that will help you out. It does require some practice. You cant try the following tute's in these places:

www.ikickshins.net
http://www.hairextensionsforum.com/
http://www.doctoredlocks.com/catalog/home.php
And You tube always has some great videos. Type in dreadfalls and I'm sure that you can find videos to help you.

I am so sorry to disappoint, but I truely feel that I completed my side of the transaction. This was CUSTOM work, and I don't think in this instance I can be blamed for a color miscommunication, since I had an exact list of what was used. If you cannot get them on, again its no fault of the product, and no defect in the set. I'm afraid I cannot refund your money to you.

I really appologize. I hate to see anyone unhappy with my work, but these took weeks to complete, and that was time I could have used on another client. Seeing as how there is no defect in the dreads themselves, I'm afraid I can't comply.

Please let me know if there is some other way in which I can help you. I do have a tutorial myself for wearing falls. If you'd like to send me your email address I'll send the file over. I can't post it thru myspace, since its in WORD format.

Thanks!
ML

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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by ~Azaezl~ » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:06 pm

Your completely in the right imo, you held up your part of the bargain and made the falls how she wanted. Sounds to me like she's never worn / bought falls before and expected something different. When I first started wearing falls I had trouble getting them on / sitting them right so they looked good but eventually it got easier. The initial few times I put some falls on I was really annoyed because they just wouldn't sit right and it got me in such a strop I felt I'd wasted my money and would never wear them again.

I think the email you sent her was fantastic, you had no obligation to offer so much advice so she should be thankful for that and hopefully the links will help her get them on right and be satisfied with her purchase.
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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by cybernetikdreams » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:20 pm

I think that the letter was a perfect combination of being extremely polite and helpful yet firm with not giving the refund. I have to agree that it sounds like she has never worn falls (which can be very tricky at the beginning) but it is not the fault of the product. And to be honest if I think that I had received an "inferior product" that was not what I ordered I would have immediately contacted the seller and been quite timely with my responses. It just sounds to me that she got frustrated with the falls and now just wants her money back.
Honestly I should be working...

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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by rivetlicker_ » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:37 am

Assertive and well written.
Good job Miss Liberty!
I hope she understands the whole deal. She sounds young and like a bit of a fake hair novice to understand the complexity of how sellers operate. Her grammar gives me the impression of that.

I had to write in T&C and most people understand it. A lot of T&C's (including mine) sound a bit rude to me, but trying to get the point across that unless it's the product that's faulty before wear, then we have no liability against anything when they are received, opened and worn.

If you want to read my policy structure, feel free to.

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuse ... =451966317
Towards the bottom.

EDIT: I sent out a bulletin on myspace encouraging people to read T&C's!!!!!!

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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by dreadviolet » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:15 am

rivetlicker_ wrote:EDIT: I sent out a bulletin on myspace encouraging people to read T&C's!!!!!!
Heh! Sometimes I wonder how the :roll: people do order from online shops without reading the T&C:s. Even if they're short and simple. In my webshop a customer kind of needs to read them before they can write their name, address and stuff. Still I sometimes think I could write there almost anything (like "customer agrees to guarantee my mortgage by sending this order form", and they would still send it. Most people just do - not - bother - to - read - them, and then they spend the time writing an email and asking questions that are already answered there. Brrrh. :x
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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by Phoenix » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:23 pm

dreadviolet wrote:
rivetlicker_ wrote:EDIT: I sent out a bulletin on myspace encouraging people to read T&C's!!!!!!
Heh! Sometimes I wonder how the :roll: people do order from online shops without reading the T&C:s. Even if they're short and simple. In my webshop a customer kind of needs to read them before they can write their name, address and stuff. Still I sometimes think I could write there almost anything (like "customer agrees to guarantee my mortgage by sending this order form", and they would still send it. Most people just do - not - bother - to - read - them, and then they spend the time writing an email and asking questions that are already answered there. Brrrh. :x
Some websites inbed a link in the form of a clickable word within the last paragraph of their terms and conditions which, when clicked will take them to the order form. The 'I accept' button just forwards to customer to a page which says 'read the terms and conditions'. The customer is then forced to read through the T&C till they find the clickable word.

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Re: Under what circumstances do you give a refund?

Post by rivetlicker_ » Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:05 am

Phoenix wrote:
dreadviolet wrote:
rivetlicker_ wrote:EDIT: I sent out a bulletin on myspace encouraging people to read T&C's!!!!!!
Heh! Sometimes I wonder how the :roll: people do order from online shops without reading the T&C:s. Even if they're short and simple. In my webshop a customer kind of needs to read them before they can write their name, address and stuff. Still I sometimes think I could write there almost anything (like "customer agrees to guarantee my mortgage by sending this order form", and they would still send it. Most people just do - not - bother - to - read - them, and then they spend the time writing an email and asking questions that are already answered there. Brrrh. :x
Some websites inbed a link in the form of a clickable word within the last paragraph of their terms and conditions which, when clicked will take them to the order form. The 'I accept' button just forwards to customer to a page which says 'read the terms and conditions'. The customer is then forced to read through the T&C till they find the clickable word.
I have got to get myself a website =/

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