Bleach or lightner?

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ProudToBeDifferent
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Bleach or lightner?

Post by ProudToBeDifferent » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:04 pm

Hi all, I need your help with a hair issue. I currently have redish hair with dark roots, I want to get it as light blonde as I can so I can attempt to get it blue. The issue is whether I put a lightner on it then try and bleach it or just go straight for bleach. I have dyed my hair so much over the years but have always failed to get it an all over light blonde. So what would you suggest? Also any advise on which product to use for the blonde and also for a nice bright blue. Thanks!

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Little Wicked
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Re: Bleach or lightner?

Post by Little Wicked » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:42 am

Whether you're using a lightener or a bleach, both contain peroxide, so you would be double processing your hair if you use a bleach and then a lightener immediately afterwards, or vice versa. You should never used products with peroxide in them more than once a month, whether it's a lightener or a bleach. I'd suggest you use a colour remover first (Jo Bazz or Colour B4 in the UK, I think the US equivalent is called Color oops). They dry out your hair, so you'd need to deep condition afterwards, but they don't contain peroxide and are not fundamentally damaging to your hair. These products are designed to remove permanent dyes from your hair, taking you back to as close to 'virgin' hair as possible - of course, because permanent dyes work by using peroxide to lift out your colour then depositing the new colour molecules, you will probably get to a shade of ginger using these products. The colour removers can be used up to 3 times to get the maximum amount of dye out of your hair. Once you've used the remover, wait at least a week, and wash your hair thoroughly in that time at least 3-4 times to get as much residual dye particles out as possible before attempting to use anything with peroxide in it. If you put peroxide onto your hair straight after the removal process, any left over dye particles can re-oxidise and go back to a dark shade.
Depending on how light a ginger base you get with the remover, you can then either bleach your hair or use a lightener and see how light you get. What kind of base you'll need for blue depends on what shade of blue you want to end up. Darker, inky blues tend to be more forgiving and will only need a light gingerish base to work well. Bright, true blues will need a lighter base, and turquoises will need an almost white base. If you don't mind the dye having a bit more of a greenish tint, then you can get away with bleaching to a yellowish shade (yellow + blue = green), if you don't want a greenish tint, you'll need to get as pale as possible and probably tone out any yellow shades before putting the dye on top. The best way to do this without frying your hair is to bleach bath in stages, which can be done once a week (as opposed to once a month for full bleaching). To bleach bath, mix up your bleach as usual, then add the same amount of clarifying shampoo to the mix and a little water if you're going to put it on dry hair, or leave out the water if you're going to put it on wet hair. This method is gentler on your hair than a full bleach, and usually gives 2-3 shades of lift.
To go blue without damaging your hair, you'll need to be patient and put up with the strange gingery stages in between, and gradually bleach bath until you get the right base colour.
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ProudToBeDifferent
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Re: Bleach or lightner?

Post by ProudToBeDifferent » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:51 pm

Ah thank you for that, Ive read loads of review for colourb4, some can't praise it enough and others say its useless, but I have heard you need to leave it on for longer than stated. I shall certainly give it a try. Any suggestions on a good product to deep condition my hair? I can never win with my hair, it gets all horrible and all greasy the day after I wash it and have tried all kinds of shampoos and conditioners and nothing seems to stop it. I don't mind the gingerish hair (if i'm not leaving the house) I just loose patience with my hair quickly, it never does what I want it to! i certainly don't have much luck when it comes to getting a really light blonde, Ive been close but very yellow now I cant even get it yellow! There are so many products that all work so differenly and just dont know the right one to choose and can't afford to get it done professionally. Thank you again for all your advise, I'm useless sometimes and really do appreciate opinions.

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LittlePinkFaery
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Re: Bleach or lightner?

Post by LittlePinkFaery » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:45 am

All I will say is I had dyed red hair and used colour before. It lifted a lot but over the week colour started to return. It then took 6 bleaches to get the red out. I still have faint staining.

The front section of my hair I have bleached earlier in the year. From red dye to bleach blonde in one application of 40% bleach.

Needless to say I thought colourb4 sucks big time. It states that it has varied results n dyed red hair and in its own instructions said it cannot get red out as easy.

Personally I would go for bleach. I could. Have used one to two bleaches instead of 6 :(

How my hair survived I don't know!

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ProudToBeDifferent
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Re: Bleach or lightner?

Post by ProudToBeDifferent » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:16 pm

Thanks for that, I regretted the red as soon as I'd done it, I get bored with my hair so quickly, I've bleached my hair so much over the years I'm surprised I have any, its very thin naturally and don't want to push it too much. I guess the thing to do is now find a good bleach and just be careful with it, I don't want it to end up so horrible I have to dye it black after all the effort.

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Re: Bleach or lightner?

Post by ..::AtomicLox::.. » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:46 pm

While you've been provided with really excellent technical advice, my personal and professional opinion differs somewhat.

In theory, color "removers" are great. However, I have NEVER personally seen a success unless it was done within 24 hours of applying the undesired color. As far as I'm concerned they're just as damaging as a lighter or a bleach, specifically because they are so incredibly drying. The biggest thing to consider in your case, is that even if you did use one, you would have to use a bleach afterward to get as high as you want to go anyway. Putting a bleach on top of hair that has been dried out as much as a color remover would do, is very likely hair suicide. Deep conditioners can help, but not enough. Also... they stink for weeks and it is crazy hard to wash the smell out.

I would go straight to bleach. Normally I would suggest a lower volume for your roots, but in this case (this is completely unprofessional assumption, you'll have to use your own judgement!) a 20 vol should be fine since your ends are lighter, and your roots are (I'm guessing) virgin. You'll probably have to do two processes to get it light enough for blue, and I would wait at least 3 days in between if you can manage. During that down time, deep condition the crap out of it. Leave conditioner in for as many hours straight as you can stand, and rinse with as cold of water as you can stand. When bleaching, you'll process lighter and faster if you can get a friend to help you foil the whole thing, and then go sit in the sunshine. Don't leave bleach on for more than an hour TOPS and check it every ten minutes after the first 20 (leave it alone for 20). You'll be totally fine for most deep blues if you stop at yellow. Better to get to pale yellow, but as long as you have any and all trace or orange gone, you should be alright.

Splurge on decent products. Get a blue-toned bleach and a creme developer. Your hair will feel like crap for a couple weeks afterward, be super gentle and treat it well.

ETA: Bleach baths are AWESOME. I would definitely consider that if your initial lightening adventures get you close, but not quite where you want to be. I would however from a vain perspective get a big hunk of the work over with in one fell swoop so you're not weirdly orange for weeks and weeks. >.<
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Little Wicked
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Re: Bleach or lightner?

Post by Little Wicked » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:03 am

Personally, I have had alot of success with colour B4, removing both permanent blacks and permanent reds, but I have left it on for more than the recommended processing time (up to 1 hour). My hair is dark naturally anyway, so I wasn't expecting to get to anything other than ginger with this process. However, some people like the stuff, some people loathe it!

As for bleaching, if a full bleach does the job in one go, then great, but always leave at least a month in between full bleachings. 3 days is simply not enough time for your hair to recover, and by doing a 2nd full bleach in this time, you will end up damaging your hair and potentially losing some of it, especially if it's already chemically damaged and fragile.

If the first bleach doesn't get you to the base shade you want, you can begin bleach bathing a week later, but don't even consider doing 2 full bleaches 3 days apart. (Well, it's your hair, so it's up to you, but I wouldn't risk it on my own hair). You risk your hair being damaged beyond repair (even with a 20 vol developer), going gummy and stretchy when wet and even snapping or breaking off.

Yes, the ginger stages can look pretty horrible and you would have to put up with them for a while, but IMO, it's better to be patient and have a few weeks of icky looking colours than to end up damaging your hair and losing it, and having to have the whole lot cut off!

And yes, I am speaking from experience. I have been through the bleach damage and resultant pixie crop, and the damage was done on very thick, resilient hair which had not been touched with chemicals for nearly a year, and using 20vol peroxide with the bleach. And that was two straight bleaches within the space of two days. So please, please, please learn from my experiences, and go down the gentler, bleach bath route and be patient!
Mindi Kay: loves dreads,corsets, shoes, makeup & fashion, obsessed with all things horror/gore related.
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Re: Bleach or lightner?

Post by ..::AtomicLox::.. » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:38 am

If you're using decent, protein enriched, conditioning product and properly treating your hair in between, you should be okay. My assumption would be that Your hair would go ALMOST all the way in the first go, but not quite. The second round would probably only need a bleach bath, but even a full bleach would only need to be left on 15 minutes or less.
If you were to go in to a salon for a professional color correction, the longest anyone would have you wait in between is one week, unless the condition of your hair clearly would not hold up. Generally that case would be extreme, and would involve trying to life layer upon layer of permanent black. Many professionals do back-to-back lightening... but I think that's a bit reckless and go with a 3 day rule, as long as your hair will hold up.

You'll have to be the judge of that, of course. If you feel mushy or stretchy at all, as mentioned above, call it quits and figure out a plan B or you're going to end up with a chemical haircut.
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ProudToBeDifferent
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Re: Bleach or lightner?

Post by ProudToBeDifferent » Fri May 11, 2012 9:39 pm

Thank you for your advise, I got myself some bleach, just waiting as long as I can stand in hope more red will leave my hair. Have you guys any advice on a good deep conditioner (there are so many)? Also the best blue dye to use (I thought Manic Panic or Directions)? I don't want it too dark so it just looks black but trying to avoid turquoise. :)

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